CNN's Kaitlan Collins was shocked by former Attorney General Bill Barr's refusal to back down from supporting Donald Trump.
Barr, who broke with the president over his refusal to investigate widespread evidence of mass voter fraud during the 2020 election, said despite his concerns about Trump, he remains a far better choice than Joe Biden.
His intention to vote for Trump was clearly prompted by Collins, who, despite his departure from the conservative Daily Caller, now assumes a role as a voice for the liberal establishment.
BARR: Then it's not about me. I think I've been saying this the whole time. If I had to choose between two men, both of whom I believe should not be president, I think it would be my duty to choose the one who I think could do the least harm to the country. And I think Trump will do less damage than Biden. And I think all of these are threats to democracy. I believe the real threat to democracy is the progressive movement. And in the Biden administration.
COLLINS: The Biden administration, or President Biden himself.
BARR: Biden, Biden supports a progressive agenda.
COLLINS: I think a lot of people hear that. And the case that we just talked about essentially went all the way to the Supreme Court, how can you look at that and say that Biden is a greater threat to democracy?
BARR: So where are we losing freedom? Our freedoms are being restricted by progressive governments, especially Anglophone democracies, Five Eyes and other democracies. There was never a threat to the right-wing dictatorial government.
COLLINS: But how specifically is Biden threatening democracy?
BARR: The threat to freedom and democracy has always been on the left. It's collectivism, it's socialism, it's an agenda. And that is where we are losing our freedom. Parents are losing the freedom to educate and control their children. And you know, people can't speak their minds without losing their jobs or something like that. It's worse than the McCarthy era. Where does that come from? It's not coming from the right.
COLLINS: I think the two things you just mentioned are worse than the president of the United States trying to overturn the results and subvert the will of the people.
BARR: No, I think the country puts it all together. Without strengthening borders, opening borders, lawlessness, cities are being regulated quickly and harshly. So we tell people what kind of stove they can use, what kind of car they should drive, get rid of cars, etc. Yes, that is a threat to democracy.
COLLINS: But President Biden can't control some of the school boards across the country.
BARR: He's using administrative means.
COLLINS: You could make that argument.
BARR: He's making it.
COLLINS: How are they the same?
BARR: In our country, great changes are taking place without democratic processes. And they are being created by the bureaucrats of these institutions.
COLLINS: You, okay? Stop! You can't claim that Republicans across the country don't do that, too. my hometown There's a big fight going on in libraries over which books children can read. This is not just a one-party fight.
BARR: Do you think there is such a thing? Don’t you think there should be some limits to what people can read? I agree, young people.
COLLINS: I think people are not seeing what you're saying. And maybe even Republicans who are concerned about school districts or culture and don't have abortions don't equate it with Jan. 6 and Trump's efforts. When you told him the election wasn't stolen he still went out and said it was stolen and made a lot of people believe they weren't and those things are not equal. It feels like a false equivalency.
BARR: Well, I disagree. I think it's much more likely that this country will lose its freedoms due to the excesses of the left. They've been consistent and that's clear. People lose their jobs. Children are not allowed to speak in class. To get good grades, etc., you have to follow what the professor says. It has become like the Stepford Nation led by progressive elites.
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COLLINS: What you've been saying recently is that the actions associated with Donald Trump are trying to subvert and prevent the progress and implementation of the most important process we have, a peaceful process. Transfer of power after election. Name one thing Biden has done worse than that.
BARR: I think this entire administration has been a disaster for America.
COLLINS: It's worse than subverting the peaceful transfer of power.
BARR: Did he succeed?
COLLINS: Because Vice President Mike Pence interrupted? And now the people standing in line again are saying they won't do what Mike Pence did.
BARR: Look, I said it very loudly. I thought it was the whole episode, but the whole episode was embarrassing. And I am very distressed by it. So it's not an easy decision. But I think that when you have Hobson's choice, you have to choose the lesser of two evils.
Earlier this week, Trump thanked Barr for his support but also criticized him for failing the country with his actions following the 2020 election.
“Wow! Former AG Bill Barr, who let down so many good people by not investigating voter fraud in our country, just endorsed me for president even though I called him “weak, slow-moving, lethargic, heartless and lazy.” Did (New York Post!),” Trump wrote on Truth Social.” I am deeply grateful for his sincere support and am removing the word 'helplessness' from my statement. Thank you, MAGA2024!