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If Speaker Mike Johnson stays in office, it will be Democrats who save him. Like his predecessor, Kevin McCarthy, the Louisiana conservative is facing ousting attempts by relying on Democratic support to pass funding bills disliked by Republican hardliners – in this case, $61 billion for Ukraine.
Democrats helped oust McCarthy six months ago, but now some of them are saying they will rescue Johnson. Since only three Republicans have signed on to the effort to force Johnson from office, the speaker may be able to survive with only a handful of Democrats supporting him. On the surface, Democrats' willingness to support Johnson may seem strange. He is more conservative than McCarthy and more loyal to Donald Trump. So why are some Democrats who voted to end McCarthy's speakership planning to salvage Johnson's?
Washington State Rep. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez is one of them. She was a 34-year-old co-owner of an auto repair shop who narrowly flipped a district held by a six-term Republican in 2022. In Congress, she co-chairs the centrist Blue Dog Coalition and helped write the aid package that the House recently approved in a series of bipartisan votes Saturday. This included long-stalled funding to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan. In an interview a day before the vote, Gluzenkamp-Perez drew a sharp contrast between McCarthy (“a classic suit calculating his next promotion”) and Johnson (“a man of faith”).
“I don’t think my constituents wanted to see me save Kevin McCarthy. I think they’ve seen a lot of hair gel.” Gluesenkamp Perez told me. “I think they look at Mike Johnson differently. I think they want me to save him. “They are tired of the chaos, regardless of political party.”
Last month, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, an ardent opponent of additional aid to Ukraine, filed a motion to remove the speaker from office. It was the same procedural move deployed by Rep. Matt Gaetz of Florida to remove McCarthy last October. The House of Commons is in recess this week and Green has vowed to vote on the motion when lawmakers return unless Johnson resigns (he has insisted he will not).
Representative Hakeem Jeffries of New York, the House minority leader, has not said whether he will urge Democrats to rescue Johnson. Some in the party want to first extract additional concessions from the speaker of the tightly divided House of Representatives. But Gluesenkamp Perez isn't waiting for instructions from leadership. She said Johnson already had the votes. “Offering this package is enough to show me that he is worth saving,” she said.
Our conversation has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Russell Berman: Will you vote to save Speaker Johnson if Marjorie Taylor Greene forces a vote on her motion to step down?
Marie Gluzenkamp Perez: I will not vote to remove Mike Johnson.
Birman: Do you think Democrats should try to bring Johnson into negotiations and extract more concessions from him before they agree to save him?
Gluzenkamp Perez: I don't think my community is invested in procedural rules and structures. I believe our community cares about America using its influence to support democracy, and just presenting this package is enough to show me that he is worth saving.
I think Mike Johnson is a man of faith. I think he was guided by that belief. I too am a woman of faith. And I understand and respect that. The Southern Baptist Convention issued a letter supporting funding for Ukraine aid. Then Mike Johnson [a Southern Baptist] They came out in support of pushing for a military aid package. I don't think it's a coincidence. I see a man guided by his conscience and by his faith.
I disagree with Mike on many issues, but I don't see that level of confidence in Kevin. He had this old-fashioned image. The reason Kevin lost his job is because he voted to fund the government. That's an incredibly low bar. Funding the government does not show courage. That's our job. Standing up for our allies and standing up for our values is courage. And it's something that resonates even more strongly in our community.
Birman: Do you think your constituents view this situation differently than the McCarthy incident last fall?
Gluzenkamp Perez: It's kind of inside baseball vs. actual politics. Funding the government, like I said, that's a job. I don't think my constituents wanted to see me save Kevin McCarthy. I think I've seen a lot of hair gel. I think they look at Mike Johnson differently. He has one of the lowest net worth among members of Congress. I think he actually likes his family. I think they want me to save him. They are tired of the chaos, regardless of political party.
I hadn't been to DC since 9th grade until I took this job. I, too, have been thrown into this very different world with very different responsibilities, and I empathize with his personal situation. He never expected to become a speaker seven months ago. And suddenly he's thrown into this huge thing, and he's figuring it out as he goes. To be clear, I think he made mistakes along the way. But I empathize with him in a way that I could not empathize with Kevin McCarthy, the classic figure calculating his next career as a politician.
Birman: You seem to think he was a better orator than McCarthy.
Gluzenkamp Perez: I don't think Kevin ever offered this package. And Mike stepped up to the plate to do just that. Because it reflects his values.
Birman: Supporters of Ukraine aid, both Republicans and Democrats, have been pressuring Johnson for months to propose something like this package, and delays have come at significant costs in Ukrainian lives and territory. How much blame would you hold that person for not doing this much sooner?
Gluzenkamp Perez: There was a debate in the cloakroom and around the Hill about whether Mike Johnson was Chamberlain or Churchill. I think he's ultimately expressing Churchill's famous quote: “Americans will always do the right thing, even after all other options have been exhausted.”
Birman: Johnson is much more ideologically conservative than McCarthy, especially on social issues. If you're a Democrat or a liberal, how would you respond to people who tell you that Johnson is actually more dangerous and who ask you why you kicked out mainstream Republicans but saved what you think are zealots?
Gluzenkamp Perez: I am confident that our district sees the difference between those who seek power and those who do their best. I'm not worried that they'll confuse my values in voting for Mike with my values in voting away from the machine that Kevin McCarthy represents.